Dave Holland - Guilty or Innocent?

    Is Mr. Holland guilty or innocent 16

    1. Guilty (2) 13%
    2. Innocent (3) 19%
    3. Not sure (11) 69%

    Hello all. I just joined after browsing and searching a little bit, but when I got to a preset search limit, I went ahead and joined up. Besides being a huge Trapeze fan, one reason was to ask this question and see if it would be alright with the moderators if we could have an adult discourse on this subject? If not, I'll understand this thread's deletion. But aren't we adults here, capable of adult discussion without name calling and flaming?

    I work in the USA for a police department, and I don't know how it works in England, but all one has to do here in the USA is go into a police station or have a policeman come to your home and say so and so did this to me and I wish to prosecute. There does not have to be a shred of truth to the allegations, as all the the officer has to rely on is that citizen’s honesty, integrity and word. Then the officer writes out an incident report and an Affidavit of Complaint, which is the legal document the Courts need to arrest the 'innocent' party as soon as possible. Have you heard the old saying about the USA's justice system, "innocent until proven guilty"? Does the above described procedure sound like "innocent until proven guilty", or "guilty until proven innocent"?

    After 7 years in law enforcement, maybe I'm just burned out. But I truly believe Dave Holland is innocent. If I'm wrong, surely he is getting just and merited punishment. But should he be ostracized and banned from any conversations and threads because of this? Isn't his serving prison time (whether guilty, or even worse as I fear, innocent) punishment enough? We should not be abandoning Mr. Holland when he needs his fans the most and we should not be judging him either, or prolonging his punishment by holding grudges. I try to live like the Bible teaches, forgive others and do unto them as you'd have them do unto you. Would you, if guilty, and especially if innocent, want to be in Mr. Holland's shoes? There is a very thin line between Mr. Holland and any of us living in a free country, as it could just as easily and quickly be us in prison, the object of public scorn and ridicule based on one person's story, which could or could not be true.

    Thank you for allowing me to vent a little on this subject, as my own brother is serving time for a similar crime here in the States - he was man enough to admit what he did, that it was very wrong, and is taking his punishment like a man. But Mr. Holland has always maintained his innocence. I believe Mr. Holland, his integrity and his word. Prank

    It is a sad fact of life that as we grow up we discover that our heroes, family and friends are all flawed individuals capable of doing bad things as well as good and part of being an adult is accepting this fact.

    However, I am not happy about entering a poll about Mr Hollands guilt or innocennce and don`t really think it should be on this site which is dedicated to discussing Glenn Hughes and his music not the merits of the British legal system and idle speculation about issues about which we know little or nothing.

    The simple facts are that he was found guilty of serious crimes by a court of law and has to live with the consquences of that.

    Hopefully this tasteless Poll will be removed asap

    None of us truly knows the circumstances surrounding Dave Holland's case. We weren't in the courtroom, and we don't know what evidence there may be against him. In the end, only Dave Holland and his alleged victim(s) know what truly happened. Our perspective as outsiders doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It's speculative, and not really something for this forum.

    Todd

    Totally agree, Todd. I personally dont think that a poll is appropriate in this case. Tho I respect i someone´s a fan of his drumming work back then, of course.

    Cheers, Achim

    We'll let the majority rule on this topic, if we see others who agree it is not appropriate for the Fan Forum, we'll go ahead and close this thread out.

    For the record, our thoughts are mirrored by what both Iain and Todd mentioned earlier.

    Cheers,
    David & Shirean

    Really agree with Todd (which is happening much too often lately), that this is an inappropriate thread. I personally will not discuss these types of criminal actions, the nature of with are well beyond my scope of understanding.

    Frank:div27:
    "if only we'd turn around and notice the door to the cell is open"

    I knew this would strike a nerve, but I thought this was an Official Trapeze forum as well. I also respect David & Shirean's response, as well as any and all who have responded, whether pro or con. chutsler is a very nice man, and I appreciate his discourse as well (PM me anytime please!! :cool:).

    Back to Mr. Holland, we will really never know whether he is truly innocent or guilty, but most drummers start playing first and foremost for the girls, not the love of the instrument. I was kind of strange, as I started for the love of the instrument and could have cared less about the way girls would admire my limited ability - I simply wanted to make the other great musicians shine. They found that hard to digest when I'd rather practice than make out.

    As for guilt or innocence, you've probably all heard about the West Memphis Three, which I and the majority of the US public for years wrongfully judged as guilty. Well guess what? New DNA testing is showing I was wrong (and I now know why the Bible says not to judge). Echols was a child suddenly thrust into the national limelight, so of course this affected his actions around cameras. Any of us act differently when a camera is around, unless your a celebrity and used to it.

    Again, thanks for the replies, and if I'm deep-sixed on this thread, I'll understand. But surely it wouldn't hurt to let Mr. Holland know there are still human beings who love, care and pray for him daily would it? :huh:

    Well, got to get ready for another 8 hours at the department right now, so thank you all, Prank

    ....I'm not shy to discuss any subject as it is my firm belief that political correctness gives some people a false feeling of moral self-righteousness. Thinking stops when political correctness starts.

    I think Dave holland was (is) a heck of a drummer. I also think that a lot of rock-stars in the past and present had sex with under-age kids. Why? Probably because the kids are so star struck that they offer their nubile bodies to their heroes. Some take advantage of that and get caught and are convicted, others are not! There are rock stars who do not take advantage of it.

    In this case I don't understand the argument. Dave Holland, after a fair trial, has been proven guilty by a British judge. Maybe when he was living in Greece in 200 BC he could argue he was giving the kid some sex-education and could get away with it.

    To disrespect this decision, made by this judge (as long as it is made in a law abiding democratic country) can be considered as a serious insult to the victim and its family, no matter how good a drummer Dave Holland was.

    ...no, not a taboo from my side but you forgot to mention that, next to being a great rock drummer, he was found guilty of a sex-charge and got locked up in jail and doing some serious time now.

    To be honest: I said and read all there is to say about this subject. After Dave gets out of jail he'll be a free man again and this depressive cloud will be lifted from us Trapeze and Glenn fans. At least that is how i think about it: after you've done your time in jail you paid for your crime and you should be considered as a normal civilian again.


    Merry x-mas by the way (also for you Dave)

    Todd is right, I wasn't there and I won't sit back in my easy chair and do the Monday morning quarterback routine. Dave Holland made a mistake and is paying for said mistake. To pretend he doesn't exist in light of his musical contributions is absurd. If I listen to an old Tower Of Power CD and hear Rick Stevens sing a song, I appreciate what he brought to the band as a vocalist even though he has been serving a life sentence for over 30 years for multiple counts of murder in a drug deal gone horribly wrong.

    There is one thing that does bother me...I cringe whenever Glenn is on a chat and someone asks him what he thinks about Dave and his situation. Put yourself in Glenn's shoes....suppose you had a longtime friend that was convicted of a crime and was doing prison time. How would you feel about being questioned about it?

    The poll should go...but Dave Holland's musical contributions can never be forgotten.

    Yours In The Funk
    Bill "Capt. Midnite" Redford

    :ghcp:

    www.facebook.com/bill.redford

    "Cause if you fake the FUNK..your nose got to grow!" Bootsy Collins

    its not up to me to decide how everyone should lead their own lives but i do know one thing-what ever you do you dont do it with an underage kid

    Ad, you are right, society and the media have made both young girls and boys, but especially young girls, believe that they are just a sexual object to be used and abused by males. I loathe this. I tell my nieces, step-daughter, and other ladies that they are more than a sex object, and that is not how a real man would show his love.

    captmidnite1962, I agree to an extent concerning Mr. Hughes' being questioned. But as a friend and former bandmate, would you not at least take that opportunity to say exactly how you feel? If you think he's guilty, say so and why (maybe some things you may have seen on the road during tours?). If you think he's innocent, say so and why (maybe you did not see any kind of behavior like that on the road). Either way, they had to have spent a lot of time together, as they toured quite a bit, and when you're around someone all the time, you'll quickly know their quirks because they will spill the beans, as it were, by what comes out of their mouth. To really know someone, just talk to them for 10 minutes, and you'll see where their heart is really at (I speak about music, drums and my beautiful first Grandson). Right away you know this guy is a drum nut and would kill for his Grandson. BTW, if you guys really want the poll gone and I can do it, I'll delete it.

    captmidnite1962, MISTREATED, tony g, chutsler, and everyone who has taken valuable time out of your lives during this hectic time of year, thank you for discussing this touchy subject. As a Libra, I tend to see things from both sides, and I love to reason with others and learn, because that is what I want to do every single day...learn something new, whether it be a drum lick, my Grandson Ethan's quickly developing natural drumming abilities as well as him growing like a weed (8 months old now and keeping time with both hands...he'll be better than Granddaddy in no time - I'm very proud!! :)

    Thank you all again, and if you have more comments, I'd love to hear/read them. If the poll is a problem and I can't delete it, I'm sure Admin can. Either way, you guys rock!! Prank AKA Leonard

    That's a hell of a start to GHPG.net Leonard!

    DH was / is a great drummer as has been said previously, he is a human being and he may /may not have committed these crimes.

    Who am I to sit and make judgement on something I know nothing about, apart from what I may have read on a thread somewhere?

    Nice to meet you here, and I look forward to your future posts, whatever the subject :thumbup:

    :noel:

    'You thought that you could take me for granted, but I couldn't take it no more. Better run if you see me coming ... '

    Bill, I guess you're referring to me.....I think I asked Glenn once if he had been in touch with Dave since he had his problems. I never meant to put Glenn on the spot...just wanted to know if he and Dave had spoken since. For the record....I think Dave Holland and Simon Kirke are two of the most 'rock steady' drummers around.....nothing wrong with keeping a good steady beat! I hope Dave gets back on the music scene once his troubles are behind him! :clapper:

    Hey Chuck,

    I wasn't singling you or anyone out at all. Glenn has been asked questions regarding Dave and his reply is along the lines of he hopes that Dave is dealing as well as can be with his situation. And I think Mel was asked if he had been to visit him when he was on the chat. With the number of questions put to him, it got lost in the shuffle but I read elsewhere that Tony Perry, Trapeze's manager had said that Dave's visitors are limited.

    Once again I am proud of how we can carry on a debate here in a civilized manner....I have read some chat boards that are beyond ugly! Some of the Journey boards come to mind but rather than dwell on the negative I am appreciative of the way we as a group conduct ourselves here.

    Yours In The Funk
    Bill "Capt. Midnite" Redford

    :ghcp:

    www.facebook.com/bill.redford

    "Cause if you fake the FUNK..your nose got to grow!" Bootsy Collins

    I don't think it's inappropriate at all. It's a bloody shame whether it's true or not. Dave was such a distinctive drummer with his own sound and style, recognizable right off the bat when you heard him, all drummers can't lay claim to that.

    John

    He was a great drummer and leaves a legacy on record to be proud of.

    He was found guilty - whether he is or not only Dave and his accuser really know. I for one wont comment on that as i wasnt in court.

    I can tell you tho, that there have been quite a few messages of support on the Trapeze MS page for him and also people asking which prison he is in, when is he out, how to contact him etc.

    Once he has done his time he will be on a sex offenders register and will live with that for the rest of his life.

    I cant help thinking tho that because he wasnt famous, wealthy and able to afford big time lawyers, unlike Pete Townsend(child porn offences for which he is on the sex offenders list for 5 years) and Bill Wyman(Mandy Smith!) for instance, he had less chance of being found not guilty.

    We could all list "stars" who get off lightly while "the public" serve a tough sentence for the same thing. That, for me, is a bigger concern and something that makes me very angry.

    what is your criteria for what is an acceptable topic? i can't imagine there being a glenn hughes website, and this topic NOT appearing at some time. the fact that none of us were there when the alleged crime was committed, doesn't preclude us from having an opinion on the matter. in almost all cases, in which a crime was committed, the majority of us were not "there". if there is an injustice in the world, would your response always be, "we weren't there, so we don't know what happened, so don't get involved or ask questions"??

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